"To me this looks like putting Party before Country,"
And you'd be correct. But lets face it thats what the Tory party has always been about. It's just now they've done the biggest fuck up this country has ever known and the fall out from this will be immense. :(
Almost - actually Tory view is
"my job as MP and its perks and future Directorships"
then "the party if whipped"
then "the country"
Calm down, everyone. We may have voted for Brexit, but there's no need for any drama
As for our friends north of the border: when Mrs Salmond really thinks about it she may decide that it would be hard to sell to the canny Scots that with just one seat amongst 28 at the Council of Ministers she would have as much influence as Scotland now has at Westminster. Or indeed that the German and French big boys will have time to listen any more to little Scotland than they have for poor little Greece.
Now please, WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE CALM DOWN and yes CARRY ON!.
I'm sorry if I shouted, but nothing much is going to happen tomorrow.
It's been a quite familiar refrain over the last couple days, the one where many of the people who voted for Leave comfort themselves by saying not very much will change.
We'll wait and see. Meanwhile the hysterics better be stopped.
Still if they are so nervous of change, it makes you wonder exactly what those people were voting for, doesn't it?
I am not nervous of change, I'm impatient to see it.
Lets hope you can live with the results then sweetie. :)
Not a shadow of doubt about it, mate.
I can live with it don't worry, even though my pension will deflate, interest rates will remain low, petrol will increase, food prices will rise and our farmers will no longer get an average EU subsidy of £17,725pa. The problem we have is ineffective government, spin, misinformation, "let them eat cake" attitudes from politicians and no thought about the future. We elect a government to rule, not to wash their hands of issues they lack the nouse to address.
The trade agreement Canada have with the EU is for stuff 100% made in Canada by Canadian industry. So for example if they had a Nissan factory they would not be exporting cars to EU unless every bit of every car was made in Canada. How many global businesses came to UK when we joined EU just to get an opening into Europe? Norway's EU agreement include the clause to allow free movement of EU citizens.
I think you've replied to the wrong person love. :)
My original comment was aimed at the 'politically challenged' poster with the 'charming' cat wielding a machine gun icon.
But the comparison isn't between "how much influence Scotland has at the Council of Minisyers now as part of the U.K." and "how much influence it would have independent", it's between "having equivalent power to Ireland or a new member state" and "being part of of a UK which is outside the EU". Or are you arguing that we won't actually leave after all?
It's up to you. If you think that EU would subsidise your free higher education or your free prescriptions I think you are in for a very big surprise.
... did this comment get posted in the wrong place?
At 67 I'm not looking for higher education thanks. I went to Uni when 100% grants were the norm and with no repayment, but a time when a visa was needed to visit certain European countries and when you arrived you had to register with the police and could only take a limited amount of currency with you.
Paying for prescription will see a vast reduction in the volume of medicines issued. My GP practice has a notice up at the moment - they issue prescriptions for nearly £3-million worth of medicines/stuff and £1-million is handed in unused at local pharmacies. I've had to say for medication in China, Kazakhstan and unlike the uniform prescription tax pay here, it's full price or no drugs.
Yes, it is like this in most post-Soviet countries. It's especially hard for cancer and HIV patients as these drugs are very, very expensive.
I'm assuming Scotland will hold a second independence referendum and if in favour will apply to be a new EU state. How that pans out is totally beyond me with so much to address and unravel from the UK Union.
Government seemed to simply accept the 52:48 result and talk only of leaving EU (unless I've missed something?)
I guess Scotland has only informal association with Council of Ministers, dealings are with Member Countries, in our case UK. If, sometime in the future it gained independence, broke from the Union it would be eligible to apply to become a potential EU member. Ireland (Irish Republic) is a full Member Country. Where Northern Ireland ends up should be the choice of the NI people.
According to the 15th century Bill Wales is a Principality of England - what that means in legal terms looks like a goldmine for the legal profession.
It's OK you are allowed to shout. BTW - wrong fish - sturgeon not salmon(d)
2016-06-26 09:33 am (UTC)
As someone who lives in Northern Ireland I am pretty devastated. This is very bad news for the rather fragile peace we've enjoyed under the Good Friday agreement.
Yep, all because Cameron wanted to prove to his Eurosceptics that they were wrong.
Do you think Northern Ireland will do a Scotland and look to go on its' own or rejoin Ireland?
That's the problem, we have to await developments. Why wait 4 months though? Its a bit like Cameron having a car crash and telling the injured 3rd party, I'm off for a spot of lunch at my club, but I'll be back later and will phone an ambulance for you.
Last night on the radio there was discussion as to when the withdrawal process can legally starts. Some EU minister reckon it is when the referendum result was announced. The EU will also be in limbo until this mess is sorted. They might take pre-emptive action and get the ball rolling. Can't blame then if they do; action is needed.
2016-06-26 01:09 pm (UTC)
As much as I dislike Cameron that was a clever move on his behalf. He doesn't want the country to leave the EU. People within the Leave camp don't even really want it. Saying he'll step down at the party conference and allow the next PM to serve Article 50 (therefore starting the process) is a great excuse to give the EU and therefore gives the Government four months to try and figure out this mess.
Let's hope you've uncovered the plot. Such a narrow margin, so much at stake.
Thanks! Looks like I'll get another sleepless night! Cameron & Co must have known how this mechanism operates? Yet talk is of "negotiation" as if everyone was sitting round a table seeking a compromise.
Radio 4 had some Euro-law academics on last night - they reckon EU can start Art.50 or that they have good grounds to assume WE started it when the referendum result was accepted.
Not to worry, Parliament breaks up for summer hols in a few days . . . .
2016-06-26 01:07 pm (UTC)
I honestly don't know and I'm scared to even ask the question. Half the community will NEVER agree to a united Ireland. Half the community will (rightly) see this as the perfect opportunity to demand it again. And people from both sides will reject the idea of a completely independent Northern Ireland. Even having the question raised is likely to be disasterous.
Yes, a real case of walking on egg-shells. Vendettas and old hatreds likely to surface. I hope not, only deranged fanatics opt for violence, most people want to live in peace and enjoy life.
2016-06-26 01:37 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I'm not sure that explains it over here. Of course only fanatics resort to bombs and guns, but even school children can be provoked into using their fists to defend a cause that has been drummed into their heads since birth. Just last week a man was arrested for having a flat full of Semtex, and there's still minor scuffles on a regular basis in areas where the communities butt up against each other. I have faith that we could never go back to the darkest days of the Troubles, but there are still plenty of people willing to fight for their beliefs and any talk of a united or independent Ireland could easily be the spark that sets the tinder box aflame. Especially given the fact that most of the peace projects are funded by the EU!
Yes, bigotry and ignorance.
Years ago BBC Radio 4 had a programme where UK correspondents from overseas media investigated a topic of their choice. One went to Belfast to ask about The Troubles. He asked a woman own the street what the image of "King Billy" painted on the end of a terrace signified. Her reply was "Shame on yous, don't you know your Bible?" Unbelievable, but as you say, drummed in to innocent minds at an early stage.
I hope there are a few politicians/community leaders in NI / Republic that actually might have influence. It sounds facile, but I sincerely hope the future is not as bleak as it might be. It's always the general public that suffer.
A friend on FB posted something about what a mess it was going to make in NI, and TWO PEOPLE responded, "What, I was supposed to change my vote based on what might happen in Northern Ireland?" Well - yes? It is quite normal to think about what the impact of your vote might be on other people in your country?
I don't quite understand why Protestant NI-ers are so loyal to the Union given how utterly indifferent most mainland-British people are to their welfare.
People usually vote for selfish reasons. This time to screw Cameron or to stop welcoming people to UK. Overall we voted to help ourselves rather than, say, Italy with its huge refugee crisis, Greece with its non-existent economy etc. What did Kennedy say - something like "it's not what the USA can do for you but what you can do for the USA".
The Irish and the peace process as far as I recall, were never mentioned by anyone prior to the Referendum and I've heard very little since.
Just heard on lunchtime news the Tory party hopes to have a new leader in early September. But be fair, we really should not expect these hard working folk to give up their long summer holiday to help the country should we? they deserve a break after all what they've been through in the past few days.
What a mess? The whole thing was never thought through properly. all done on a whim to placate Euro-sceptics, Farage and the BNP. I sincerely hope your future and that for Eire and NI is not as dark as it so easily could be. Politicians and religious leaders - often the worst people, intolerant bigots.
I'm not 100% sure "immigration" was an issue - not the numbers. Where I live it is the pressure immigrants put on local services - health, schools, council/police etc needing translators.
Local youth refuse to work in or main local industry - farming. The vast majority of EU immigrants locally have jobs.
We even have an Albanian family near my home - been here 18 years. They arrived, found jobs and now own x4 restaurants, x2 car washes in Cwm Bran, x2 in Cheltenham, x2 in Gloucester and x1 in Hereford. Last week they opened a restaurant in Hereford, its manager, when not working there, works at the car wash. Not a bad result in 18yrs (no idea about taxes paid etc!!)
I'm worried in rural England, you have my deep sympathy. Would a "united Ireland" be so bad? Especially as Eire is an EU country. I lived in Glasgow for 3yrs and this was my first encounter with sectarianism, Orange Parades etc. When introduced to my new colleagues one simply asked "what are you Catholic or Protestant" and "How much do you earn" - what a way to pigeon-hole people.
However, it did make me try and work out which sect I might belong to and where an non-believer would fit in the scheme of things.
2016-06-26 01:05 pm (UTC)
The problem is that even asking that question would result in a return to violence. My opinion doesn't matter (though for what it's worth, I'm from a Protestant background and am English but would vote for a united Ireland) - what matters is that to talk about a united Ireland, EU or no EU, is to essentially restart the Troubles. Half the country would never agree to it and it will inevitably result in violence. Unfortunately Sinn Fein have already raised their renewed desire for a secession vote - and the DUP have already publicly celebrated Brexit and expressed solidarity with Great Britain. There's no way this can be solved without causing massive, massive upset over here.
"The Conservative Party is internally divided, the Labour Party is likely to hold a "Vote of No Confidence" re- its Leader, Jeremy Corbyn." - Another spot on prediction.
I sincerely hope you're wrong for once about Trump.
I find it amazing what has happened post-brexit. We've seen Boris Johnson drop himself from the biggest job in his career; David Cameron and even UKIP's Nigel Farage resign.
The most ironic thing is that it's not the Labour party that will hold the vote of no confidence, it's Corbyn's fellow MPs as 72% of the party are behind him. When the MPs attempted a coup in June, 60,000 people joined the party setting a new record high.
You couldn't make up this stuff! Anyone heard from the LibDems? No post Brexit plan even though there were 3yrs to draw one up - even Baldrick had a plan!
I've no idea what Labour are doing, apart from planning to vanish up their own arses - what an opportunity missed. So we've no real government I guess, no opposition but to be fair, not much to oppose just now.
Not to worry, they'll all be off on holiday soon, then the round of Conference arse-licking . . . and in the meantime where did the £ go? Chilcot Report forgotten, and talk/meetings about how to plan for the post-Brexit strategy (we hope).
With only 37% of the population in favour of leaving EU and a 48:52% result, I really don't think that is sufficient to leave the EU. EU certainly needs shaking up and modernising, to be more financially accountable, stop the stupidity of Brussels/Strasbourg annual migration etc etc etc.
And politicians wonder why the electorate are apathetic? Just look in the mirror.
I voted to leave due to the right-wing undemocratic nature of the EU.
I was happy with the result but don't think they'll let us leave.
This is the pet project of the elites and if we leave then many more nations will be emboldened.
I started off thinking I'd vote to leave, but having seen the UK politicians on action during the campaign, I concluded I'd rather have bunch of unelected civil servants in charge than the bunch that graced my TV, radio and newspaper daily.
Then I ended up wondering why on earth Cameron gave us a referendum in the first place (other than to appease Tory Euro-sceptics, BNP, UKIP etc). We elect governments to govern, not wash their hands of contentious issues.
I was disappointed with the result but am coming to think we will be better off out - maybe even the first out before the project hit the rocks.
Quite true what you say - EU is run by a small clique as a project. A cynic might even say it is a way for Germany to rule Europe third time lucky.
The Strasbourg/Brussels migration, for me, sums up the inability of the EU to get its act together, its lack of care with funds, and the rather childish outlook - "we want a parliament . . .so do we" OK have one each, rather than someone say "now now children, grow up we can only have one."